Thanks for the comment!

SDG,
Matty

Doctrine, it seems to me, is an attempt of the finite to understand the nature and character of the infinite. GOD has presented to us glimpses of HIS character through HIS creation and through HIS son. And HE does this, of course,in the context of HIS desire to have a relationship with us.

Enjoy the journey.

In HIS grace,
seanair

Thanks for your comments… I know John and I are together on this… i really appreciated the way you worded this, “the most fundamental truth is also one of the deepest points of doctrine”. Thanks so much

SDG,
Matty

I don’t think that you can truly divide relationship from theology. If you have the wrong theology, you will use your relationships for your own benefit, rather than being used in them for God’s glory. Does that make sense?

One more disagreement, however. You say that a baby Christian doesn’t need the deeper questions of doctrine. I find it hard to imagine any deeper theology than that the God of the universe died to save me. Yes there are more esoteric doctrines that can be set aside, but they may not really be deeper.

Gotta go. There is still some work to get done.

John

If you choose to define “Doctrine” as any set of truths of the Christian faith, then, of course, you are right. Jesus taught truths. Paul taught truths. My pastor teaches truths…

Jesus said, “I am the Way, the Truth and the Life. No one comes to the Father, except through Me.” Is this a truth? Yes. Is this a doctrine of salvation? Yes. But it is a statement *dripping* with relationship!

For a brand-new, baby Christian the deeper questions of doctrine are irrelevant. The author of Hebrews wrote:
“But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil.” Hebrews 5:14 (NIV)

Also, your last sentence reads “If God didn’t want us to worry about doctrine…”. I don’t think God wants us to *worry* about anything! He came to relieve our worries!

Did I mention I’m really enjoying this?

SDG,
Matty

I think my biggest issue comes down to this. When someone says “doctrine” or “system of theology”, I get the impression of a list of rules… do’s and don’ts… the edge of the slippery-slope that ends in salvation by works…

Be willing to consider that some of your reaction to the words “doctrine” and “theology” is just that, your reaction. I think a lot of us have had a bad experience where someone is rigid and more devoted to a “system of theology” then they are to the Living Lord who should be the focus of their theology. Don’t let those bad experiences ruin the idea of studying Scripture to understand God through theology. At its core, theology is about loving God with your mind as an act of worship. If it is not an act of worship, then it is mere rubbish.

You must understand the doctrine of sin and death. You also must understand the doctrine that salvation comes only through the grace of God, as shown through the sacrifice of His Son on our behalf.

Yes, it is a slippery slope. But, I don’t think you can avoid it altogether. Also, even if we are both saved based only on the most basic of doctrines, I THINK (not being dogmatic here) that part of our response to God’s grace is a desire to comprehend His character. This leads to the study of theology and doctrine.

Also, read through Matthew 24-25. In it Jesus teaches a lot of doctrine about judgment, His return, etc. If God didn’t want us to worry about doctrine, would He have allowed that to be included in His Scripture?

Still thinking here. You state:

Jesus never presented a doctrine… Jesus said, “For God so loved the world, that He gave His one and only Son. That whosoever believes in Him should never die, but have Eternal Life.”

In my view, Jesus’ statement is rich with doctrine.

There is a doctrine of the nature of God: He loves the world, in fact He loves them so much that He gave His only Son.

There is a doctrine of Jesus: He is the One and Only Son of God, He was given as the only source of eternal life.

There is also a doctrine of man: They are sinners who are dying, and need grace to receive eternal life.

So, in the quote that you give, I see lots of doctrine. BUT - we can’t get lost in the doctrine so that we forget about the loving God who gave his one and only Son.

I think my biggest issue comes down to this. When someone says “doctrine” or “system of theology”, I get the impression of a list of rules… do’s and don’ts… the edge of the slippery-slope that ends in salvation by works… salvation by adherence to “a principle or position or the body of principles in a branch of knowledge or system of belief” ( definition of doctrine provided by Merriam-Webster online @ http://m-w.com/dictionary/doctrine).

In my mind, doctrines are simply man’s way of codifying the intangible that is a relationship with Almighty God… I don’t care what your feelings are on infant baptism, on literal creation, on gay marriage… these questions are not vital to whether or not a person is saved…

your turn!

SDG,
Matty the Stranger